So what is the move for Mattingly?
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- October
- 18
When we last saw Don Mattingly, he was standing in the middle of the clubhouse demanding that Joe Torre be treated with respect.
The Yankees left Torre dangling for 10 days then made him a take-it-or-leave-it offer that they knew he would refuse.
Through his agent, Mattingly declined comment tonight out of respect for Torre. You have to wonder what he thinks of the way his old boss was treated.
There are only 30 managerial jobs and certainly only one Yankees. So I would guess Mattingly hides whatever anger he feels and tries to get the job. But wouldn’t it be something if he said he wasn’t interested and went back to his horse farm in Indiana?
Meanwhile just spoke to somebody I know who is tight with Mariano Rivera. He said that Mo is more determined than ever to test the market after the developments of today.
Mo’s comment: “The Yankees are one of 30 teams now.”
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Doesn’t surprise me with Mo.
Still, I don’t think he leaves…the price just gets even higher though.
Good-bye Mo. Thanks for the memories. Just don’t cross over to the dark side.
I hope Randy Levine, Lon Trost, and the boys are happy.
Those are pretty strong words from Mo, but closely related to the same quotes from him all season. He is still upset about the Yankees’ refusal to negotiate with him during the season, when he knows that it is their policy to wait. The big question- is it Mattingly who manages or is the next manager sitting in the Fox studios? And I don’t mean Eric Karros, Kevin Kennedy, or Jeanne Zelasko.
Mo’s just using this as leverage. No big deal.
well, that is just great! Mo testing the dismal closer fre agent market; he’ll have to step over himself just to take a good look at them all. The front office need to get a new skipper on board and NOW! that is the only way they can keep what they have that they want to keep and give some kind of real direction to this franchise. way too many question marks out there now, too many for my comfort! I’m sure Jorge will follow suit and there you have it. and Torre will be laughing, albeit, quietly, all the way back to Westchester!
so let me get this straight. Mo’s loyalty to Joe trumps loyalty to Yankee fans and his teammates. Got it.
Whether he leaves or not, the Yanks leadership is gone. I’m thinking it’s all going to go downhill from here.
Harley Sounds like you are spot on.
How many players get to play for one manager their entire career? I don’t think anyone. Mo needs to grow up and realize that it is just a business.
I’m sure Torre expects Jorge and Rivera to at the very least and I mean the very least, if they are going to remain a Yankee, to really make them sweat. You know that they are talking to each other, don’t ya think?
Sentimentality never signed a paycheck. Mo will get over it and retire as a Yankee just as the script was written. The same applies to Jorge.
Mo’s comment: “The Yankees are one of 30 teams now.�
?????
WTF is that?
Does he realize he’s CLEARLY in downtrend? He won’t get a huge contract from ANY clubs.
If chooses to leave, let him go!
If Mo leaves, hang it on Cash.
Cash or the front office declined to extend him a year ago.
From his perceptive, Mo saw an older arm in Moose get extended, but all Mo got was lip from ‘da hand.
I also think that in the end Mo stays, but I guess that it’s never a bad idea to look at alternatives. The most interesting one is Brewers closer Francisco Cordero, who really pumps that fastball up in the high-90s. He may stay in Milwaukee, though. Who knows?
I just hope they hire someone soon so the media quits creating all of this drama.
If I were Mattingly, I would be pretty pissed off. The ending for him promises to be even less graceful than this one and he’s a Yankee icon. That being said, I would take the job. He’ll get at least a two year deal, yet Torre is offerred a one year deal with a long shot for a 2nd year.
I gotta say, I am disappointed that Cashman’s stature has diminished in the new corporate structure. It does not bode well for the future of our team.
I want to know where the captain is, in all of this? I’m tired of hearing and reading “oh he is probably talking behind the scenes”. If he is the captain he should act like one!
I love Mo and Jorge and would be crushed to see them leave.
But you know what, if that’s what they are gonna do then screw them. What about the fans who have been behind you all this time, not to mention pay your salary? Where’s your loyalty and respect to us? Do they not even think of us? Do we even factor into the equation?
Anymore I’m just looking at uniform numbers and screw the men inside of them. They don’t care about us, why should we about them?
And look at what extending an older Moose got us.
If I’m the Yankees I look at it like this, you are paying Mo whatever he wants. By overpaying him to stay you offset the cost by keeping Chamberlain as a starter.
Joe Nathan will be available for ‘09 and the new house.
Sorry, Pete, I don’t agree.
I think Torre got a great deal. He is still the highest paid manager in the game, he’s 67, and how long is he going to manage?
They just made more of his salary incemtive based. It’s done all of the time.
His contract was not up until the end of the month (it still isn’t up yet) so we have not heard the last of this.
Mo is great, but c’mon already.
Mattingly would be insane to turn down the job. He will take it if offered. And Mo is just using this as leverage. He will wear pinstripes next year.
Boo hoo, Mo. Last I checked, the logo on your cap isn’t “JT” it’s “NY.” If Torre means so much to him, then go follow him to the Cardinals or whever the hell Torre wants to manage.
The Yankees have given Rivera everything he’s ever wanted and treated him like a king. So the poor millionaire doesn’t have the luxury of being managed by the same manager his entire career? If only every ballplayer could be so lucky. Last I checked, Rivera’s role is still going to be the same no matter who is in the dugout managing the team.
If Rivera is willing to piss away everything he’s accomplished here with the Yankees and the fans, then he’s not worth it.
Really folks, what do you expect Mo to say?
Its business!!! He is saying the exact thing he is trained to say by his agent.
Before saying goodbye, how about we let the thing play out and see what happens.
Pete, If I was the Yankees, here’s the direction I go:
Mattingly as manager, Bowa as bench coach, Nardi Contreras as pitching coach, Dave Eiland as bullpen coach, Tony Pena back as first base coach, and Trey Hillman as third base coach.
This way, you have all the favored organization guys on one staff. No differing opinions on bullpen use, game situations, etc.
I’ve heard that elsewhere, that would probably be the best way to go.
Nardi Contreras as pitching coach, Dave Eiland as bullpen coach
Hey Pete! Stop trying to stir crap. We know you loved Torre like a fat man loves to sit down. Get over it or go cover another team if you hate the way they treated “His Royal Highness Clueless the Joe”
I am sure Paul Quantrill is upset that Torre won’t manage again. Torre ruined his career. And somewhere Scott Proctor’s arm is cheering.
Does Rivera and even Posada relize that if they leave the Yankees Joe won’t be managing that team either? It will be a new manager,new town/city,new teammates……All that in exchange because Torre isn’t managing the Yankees? Okkkkkkkkkkkaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy!
I feel Mo will leave and Jurge will leave and Arod will leave and we are going to be in big trouble. The new direction is going to put the Yankees in a real flux. Stuck with Giambi next year Moose no closer or catcher not good folks. I pray my instict is wrong because if i am right no MLB Extra innings for me next season.
my theory has been that the yankees are one screwed up organization. today’s weirdness with randy levine taking charge when cashman is supposed to be in charge shows the dysfunction of this ownership. it’s time to sell. george was ownership. he’s gone.
time for a new owner.
Let’s keep Nardi in the minors continuing to develop the pitching prospects.
ryan:
07:$17M club option ($1.5M buyout)
07:$11M, 08:$11M
Is the reason they re-signed Mussina since there was no other starting pitching available. They got him at a good price before he started to fall apart.
I want Bowa to stay at 3B, he is one of the best 3B coaches I have ever seen. I can’t recall one bad send or hold he made since he’s been there. I also love his enthusiasm out there on the field.
Harley (October 18th, 2007 at 9:54 pm) said:
so let me get this straight. Mo’s loyalty to Joe trumps loyalty to Yankee fans and his teammates. Got it.
Bob (October 18th, 2007 at 10:02 pm) said:
I love Mo and Jorge and would be crushed to see them leave.
But you know what, if that’s what they are gonna do then screw them. What about the fans who have been behind you all this time, not to mention pay your salary? Where’s your loyalty and respect to us? Do they not even think of us? Do we even factor into the equation?
Anymore I’m just looking at uniform numbers and screw the men inside of them. They don’t care about us, why should we about them?
You guys are crazy… it is a job. What the F does what we think have anything to do with what they think of the Yankee organization?
Curious here - you work at a company for 12 years. They pay your paycheck, but it’s your supervisor who treats you right. Gives you days off when you need it. Makes damm sure you and your family are treated right. He’s the best supervisor you’ve ever had. Has never done wrong by you and always stands up for you. Your company after 12 years cuts him lose in a really crappy way. You’re contract is up this year, but the company says, we’re not going to extend your contract until you prove after 12 years of exceptional service that you still have what it takes to get the job done. You have 30 other offers on the table for your services that pays you as much or more than what you make now. Do you stick around because the company’s mailroom guys thinks you’re cool? Or do you think twice about the company you work for because of how they treated the supervisor that always treated you right?
Fans are fickle and come and go like farts in the wind… Some stick around for years, some don’t… but it was Torre that they were close to and respected and witnessed getting sh@t on by a company… get a clue… what des Mo and Posada care what we think…?? the Yankees just crapped on the only manager they’ve had that had always had their backs… where would your loyalties lie? The boss that always treated you right or the company that just crapped on him (and you too back in the spring)?
I seriously hope the Yankees don’t make the playoffs next year just so Levine will be made to look the fool he is. That clown should have no say in anything and as Francesa says should just be around to get the baseball guys coffee. Thanks for the memories Joe and thanks for the rings Mo. There should be banners at the first game next season voicing our displeasure with certain members of the Yankee brass.
First,
I’m really going to miss Joe all my conscious life and ever since I’m a Yankee fan Joe Torre has been skipper so it’s going to be a new Yankee era for me.
My next point is I really think Joe made the best decision he was treated with next to no respect and it makes sense that he no longer wants that.
Finally as much as I love Mariano Rivera as a closer I am very disappointed with his attitude. He new in spring that the Yankees never negotiate extension, he also knows he is getting older and why would the Yankees just jump onto an extension without seeing how it played out. Fact is he had his worst season in pinstripes and still got 30 saves, the ERA was up but ok. So he may have earn a place in the rotation. But the thing that really ticks me off is that his loyalty is not with the Yankees but with Joe, that is why the Yankees haven’t won the Wold Series the team is more important that the individual players, the pinstripes mean more than Derek Jeter, A-Rod, Babe Ruth, Lou Gering, Joe Dimagio. Yes we remember the players but above all we remember they were Yankees. If Mo feels more loyalty to Joe Torre than to the Pinstripes I say good riddance, same goes for Posada or any Yankee who believes more in one person than in the Teem. If I were a Yankee player Id rather retire than play for another team.
-I want to thank god for making me a Yankee- Joe Dimagio
Thats the true Yankee spirit
Mazzone as pitching coach would be the only subtitution I would make to your staff SJ….I like the rest, maybe bring MAZ back.
Anyone ever ask Ralph Houk if he was pissed off in 1960 when the Yankees didn’t rehire Stengel because he was 70? It don’t think they even made him an offer. Did give him some money though. Or Red Schoendienst in 1964 when Johnny Keane felt disrespect because special advisor Branch Rickey tried to get him fired in August? In May 1990 Kevin McReynolds was upset when Davey Johnson was fired in favor of Bud Harrelson. Said he would leave, In December he signed a new contract saying he
found he liked Bud Harrelson. Harley is right. Money and Torre mean more to Rivera than his teammates or the fans.
Do coaches ever turn down a coveted job because they don’t like the way their predecessor was treated? They will say “I didn’t want it this way but Joe told me to take it. Some one is going to get the job and it might as well be me”.
Chis is a Randy Levine apologist. I wonder what you are going to say Chris when the Yankees miss the playoff next year. Who are you gonna start crying about now?
I’m not as cynical as SJ. I can believe that Mo is loyal to Torre, and feeling for him. I can also believe that this, to Mo and Posada, justifies their wish to test free agency and extract top dollar - from the Yankees. They would like to stay with their teammates, not uproot their families and their lives, and still make very good money. Business is business, and what happened today proves that for the nth time, but they would most likely prefer to stay with the team, IMO. As long as the Yankees don’t try to lowball them, and treat them with respect (read - $$).
I’m a big fan of both of them, but that’s how it is, I think.
My, so much cluelessness, so little blog time. For you people attacking Pete, ask yourself this: who did Pete have his money on as the next manager? Give up? That’s right, Pete thought Donnie Baseball would be next. So stop with the idiotic attacks, as if Pete was a suck-up for Torre. Those of us who have been reading Pete all season know otherwise.
And I also assume (forgive me Pete) that Pete figured the Yankees would replace Joe Torre in an honorable, dignified fashion. Instead, they chose a ridiculous, disgraceful method to do this.
I was not sure that I wanted Torre back either. It would have been nice to have him retire in pinstripes, that way the successor comes in clean. But there are ways of handling these things, and Levine and Company blew it big time.
Mattingly still wants the job, no doubt. He was a loyal lieutenant (sp?), but now it’s his turn (see: Houk, Ralph)
Here’s an interesting thought….we haven’t had a player-manager in the bigs for awhile, have we? Any thoughts?
My favorite player in the last 20 years but what qualifications does Mattingly have to become a full time manager? I am not dumping the guy — just don’t want to see my idol get dumped, which as managers go, is an eventual thing.
In terms of qualifications for this team, I prefer a former catcher who has experiences with both hitting and pitching (especially on how a game should be called.) IMO, of course.
The comments from Mo really irk me. Sure hes been great but hes been on a lot of good teams that got him to the post season so he could do those things. Plus they made him the highest paid closer in baseball.
Sunny,
How exactly did the Yankees Crap on Joe Torre? Was he not just offered at least 1.5 million more than the next highest paid manager?
I wouldn’t be surprised if Mo left, but I would be heartbroken.
Mo’s been my favorite guy on the Yankees since 1999, 8 years now…one of the few that was there the first season I started following the Yankees.
It will be a long winter.
World Come To An End
http://tinyurl.com/2qznyb
Film @ 11
It’s not about the money - it’s about respect. Once again next year, he’d be under the gun again, going through the same BS that he went through this year. A one year deal isn’t respectful - it’s an offer he could refuse and it showed no confidence in him. How do players under him respect a manager who’s own bosses don’t respect? Respect-wise, it was a sham deal.
(Again, this isn’t a for or against Torre thing, just a I understand Mo and Jorge’s POV post).
Ohh Mo please with that comment. He played for the Yanks, the Yanks paid him what over $100m playing for them..he didnt play for team Torre. His respect is to the Yanks organization not the manager. It makes me laugh. Seriously, where is he going? He is still good but he is 37 years old. He can talk all he wants but he isnt going anywhere and either is Posada. Talk is cheap. So let me get this because he is mad that the manager isnt coming back he is gonna go to an awful last place team and never be in the playoffs again..? Giants, Phillies, Rays??
Omg Pete, could you stop painting a poorrrr Joe picture. They offered a deal to him, he said no and that’s that. It was going to happen at some point anyways. They offered him a pay cut but the original deal he got was from Georges ex son in law, it was a foolish contract anyways. He was still going to get paid nearly twice as much as any other manager. I have lot’s of respect for Joe but I refuse to make him out to be this poor abused employee.
Now as far as Mariano, what’s he going to do? So if he ends up leaving why cause Joe is gone? It’s not like he can follow him anywhere. Players can’t choose their managers. I wish Joe well.
Hopefully they have taught Mattingly how to speak to the media after a game, because the game Joe was suspended this year and Mattingly filled in, his post game interview was brutal. I had to turn it off.
If Pettitte, Posada, or Rivera– who knows with A-Rod– but if any of they old guard depart because of this I’m going to make it my personal mission in life to ensure that Levine and Cashman finds themselves on the unemployment line.
I probably have a better chance of hitting the lottery but I’m certainly going to try.
My first thought is to endeavor to persuade Yankee fans to boycott opening day.
Personally, I thought that while Mattingly isn’t a bad idea for coach, he should have spent a year learning the tricks of the trade managing the Scranton AAA team for a year and had Larry Bowa as a bench coach to give him some differing opinions and more aggressive options instead of a “learn as you go” Torre clone type bench coach… who is absorbing info more than offering input.
If Mariano has no loyalty to the Yankees - let him walk. That’s how I feel about it.
Hope next season yankees don’t make postseason and finish last in the division.Hope molina is catcher, joba .is closer arod leaves, jeter ask to be traded, andy decides not to come back .the brain trust left looking stupid for thinking yankees fans are buying this crap! if this is what yankees fan have to look forward to with this group,heaven help the yankees.i hope the yankees org. feel this for a long time.i want a mass exudos.yankees will implode i hope.i loathe this new management and their decision making,lousy for new york!
There is nothing wrong with giving a 68 year old manager a 1 year deal. Torre does not deserve a lifetime pass to the Yankee manager’s office. He has already been rewarded several times over for a job well done.
Trey Hillman in talks with royals.
In the Torre opinion department, I have to say, for me the jury is still out. I do think however that the Yankees had completely mishandled this one and should have done one of two things instead - fired him outright after game 4 of the ALDS, or handed him that contract offer immediately. The 11 day delay reeks of consipracy and conjuring ways to keep the blood off their faces… only to have it end up on their hands.
Personally, I remember the moment the hired Torre and scoffed for months… a .500 lifetime manager with little to no post season appearances… so I’m willing to give the new manager a shot before doing the same again… Maybe a two year deal was what this team needed so the vets and Torre can go off together into the sunset, or maybe new blood is what this team needs to get past the hump… I’m willing to wait and see.
One question if Torre is weak on strategy and tactics and they hire Donnie. Didn’t Donnie learn most of his real managing stuff from Joe. That does not seem a good thing given that’s why he is gone. We know it was not his clubhouse management because that was strong.
They showed no loyalty to him by not offering him an extension in the spring.
The 1 thing I wonder is..Cashman was ALWAYS, ALWAYS a Torre supporter and this year after they lost it did not seem like he was anymore. Last year after they lost he said alot of nice things like Torre is the right man for the job, not 1 thing this year. I have read that he did not like how he managed the bullpen and would not use the young players when they were brought up..But who knows..
Mo has every right to field offers from any and every team. These Tampa IDIOTS left him hanging all year when they should have RUN after him with a new deal. They did the same with Jorge. They never offered Andy right away last time, either, or he may never have gone to Houston in the first place. They are just CLUELESS! They treat their own like garbage and then go pour money on a bunch of nothing like the Igawa deal or the Giambi contract or Pavano. They have a history of kicking their own in the teeth and running after some high priced has beens from other teams.
Do you think there will ever be another Yankees manager that will be able to take us to the postseason for 12 straight years? You young fans are so spoiled.
Angry, Go root for the Mets!!! See how you like their management style. Do You root for the laundry or the manager?
When ARod retires and they call him the best player ever will it have an asterisk (asterisk = includes only regular season)….heheheh
Paul9- That’s just their policy for the last several years. I’m not saying that it is completely right, but that is just how the Yankees do business. They didn’t pick up Mussina’s option before last year started, they just offered him a new deal at the end of the year. That will be their same plan with Mo.
“From his perceptive, Mo saw an older arm in Moose get extended, but all Mo got was lip from ‘da hand.”
uhh, Moose’s contract was up. Mo’s wasn’t.
i don’t get the similarity at all.
I dunno. I’d consider it a privilege to be a Yankee. My family wouldn’t starve, either. It’s not like they’re cheap or anything.
It’s tough. There’s turnover everywhere in baseball except for Yankeeville because of the emotional attachments.
It was hard to let go of Bernie and Joe. But it had to be done and really, how are you going to do it?
The Yankees are so polarizing that there was no “right” way to deal with this kind of thing.
If they had brought Torre back, it’s business as usual, people would say it’s time for change, he can’t win anymore, etc.
If they let him go, it would be who’s going to replace him, who can do the job better, who’s going to coddle Jeter, Andy, Mo, and Jorge (who are btw grown men and not biological children of Mr. Torre).
If they did it right after the series loss, it’s why make such a rash decision, why not calm down, don’t do anything after a terrible loss.
If they dragged it out, it’s why leave Torre twisting in the wind.
Just a little variation on the old line, “You can please some people some of the time, but you can’t please all the people all of the time”
You guys are getting worked up over Torre? Look who’s next on the list of players to put out to pasture: Mo, Jorge, and eventually Yankee great Derek Jeter.
This is why Wedge deserves to lose this game. Red Sox had been going through the turnstile at 1st the whole game and he sends CC back out in the 7th when he’d already gone 100+ pitches and he has that “magnificent” bullpen at his disposal.
captains corner, hard to stand up for some one when you fielded a bad group of pitchers at the start,and trying to keep your own job too!
sunny, while I appreciate your attempt to turn the Yankees into a bad episode of The Office, it has no relevance to what’s happening here. Yes, as SJ points out, this is probably just the usual gamesmanship. But it’s hardly out of line to suggest that Mo might have some loyalty to the fans, and if you feel they’re fickle and don’t deserve it? Fine. How about his teammates?
The comments from Mo bother me too, but I have a feeling things with him are being vastly overblown by the media. I find it hard to believe that in the end he would be unable to see the forest for the trees as far as his and the team’s best interest goes. I think as long as the $$ is right, his loyalty to the Yankees will outweigh his loyalty to Torre & he will stay.
Again, the media is making the situation w/Mo sound worse than it really is b/c of loyalty to Joe. The offer the Yankees made him was fair. He chose not to take it. That people expect the Yankees to keep on the same mgr after 12 years, when his results haven’t been what they used to be, isn’t realistic.
VOIII,
Chill out on Angry. Obviously not a Yankee fan. Just look at the grammar, spelling, and syntax.
Here is another interesting story this time from Buster Olney. Seems to me that Joe had an idea what the offer would be. I think there is plenty of blame to go around here.
As far as Mo is concerned didnt he say at the end of the season that he was going to test the waters so not sure if there is any difference today. Also if the Yankees offer more money you think they are going to leave Jeter all alone there no matter what happens with Joe. Do they have a stronegr affinity for Torre then they have for Jeter> Who knows but when it all comes down it will all be Show Me The Money
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=3069558
Big Joe,
Don Mattingly played for Lou Pinella and Billy Martin…Why would you think all he knows is what he learned from Torre? When did Baseball become Brain Surgery?
I think Mo will come back, the Yankees will make it worth his while plus he can live near his restaurant. Posada I could see seriously exploring other options. The Mets will offer him the ranch and other teams might too. I think Pettitte will play one more year with the Yankees, he committed to the team, not the manager. I think A Rod will opt out, he liked Joe. Of course he also liked Lou.
By the way, the Yankees have an obligation to interview minority candidates before making any managerial decision, so that process has to play itself out, but at the end of the day, Mattingly or Girardi get the job.
Any fans giving up on the team due to Torre’s departure, good riddence. You’re all probably 4 RING bandwagoners anyway. You’re the fanbase’s dead weight and with you gone, it just means more parking at YS for everyone else.
Buh bye!
No way Mo or Jorge come back now. It’s all for one and one for all with the core guys. Remember how they all went on hunger strike in ‘03 when Cash lowballed Pettitte? Or how they all set themselves on fire when the team jerked Bernie last winter?
They will go with the team that offers them the most money. Period. And they’re right, too. Cash had his chance last spring and wouldn’t even return their calls. Now if Boston offers Mo something crazy like $40M for 2 years, what’s he gonna do?
I don’t believe age has anything to do with the number of years on a deal… McKeon for example managed the Marlins to the 03 crown at the ripe old age of 73. But the one year deal reeked of gamesmanship.
and Mo’s loyalty to the Yankees has nothing to do with anything. Get over it. Mo has no loyalty to the Yankees or it’s fans - just as you have no loyalties to the firm you work for or it’s boss. Sure he pays your salary, but does that mean you’d take a 10 thousand dollar pay cut to stay with his company? Not. This is a business. The Yankees have every opportunity to talk extension with Mo at Spring Training and they declined to see if he was ok. No Mo saying no… the Yankees said no. If mo crapped the bed this year and blew 20 saves, how many of you angry “Mo is disloyal fans” would be pining for his return and signing a big contract because he was so great for us for the past 12 years? Not me. So suck it up. It’s a business and in this business - everyone postures to get the money. Mo is milking every last cent he can get out of the money pit that is the Yankees for his last contract. I have no problem with that whatsoever.
Lots of managers including Torre mention how little they feel they knew when they look back years later at their time before becoming a coach of some sort. I am not saying I don’t want donnie just that for those that say joe was bad at xs and os I don’t know that donnie is the fix for that particular issue.
bbb -
When was the last time you saw that happen? Mo and Jorge are going to look around and see that guy like Giambi, Pavano, Abreu, Farnsworth and Damon earn as much or more than they do, and if I was them, I’d take them to the bank too…or walk…directly behind Joe Torre.
hahahahahahahaha….
They dug this grave which has gotten progressively bigger each year, with less and less results each fall. Now die in it, George. ha.
vo111,up yours
All of you guys that bad mouth the owners need to spend some time in some other cities where they’d love owners that demand winning. Try living in Tampa, Kansas City, Pittsburgh…they just milk it year after year.
We are very fortunate to be yankee fans even if the owners are psychotic at least they strive to be psychotic winners.
What do the Yankees need? A manager who handles the media with class, and handles the team with dignity. We need a manager who can handle problems more often then not. We need a manager who can find a problem and handle it before it becomes a nightmare. We need a manager who the players go to war with and don’t press to play for. They have a sense of urgency, but don’t bend backwards when the first sign of trouble arises. What about on the field? It doesn’t matter because in baseball the manager’s job is to limit the damage he can cause. Torre didn’t have a rotation that he could rely on, so he had to use the bullpen more. Mismanage? Sure. Some terrible choices? Sure. Limit the damage? I don’t know. Over the course of the season a manager’s influence ends up costing the team 1 game a year. The manager we need, needs to handle all the off field things that comes with this team, and can get his team to play well for him.
Torre did that, but he’s no longer an option.
Instead here we are asking for a manager who has fire. So it appeases us fans? So it makes it seem like he’s doing something, so we can feel better about the team? Come on don’t be too foolish. Hey if it makes you feel better at the end of the day, fine. But don’t think it actually makes a difference. Imagine the 2007 Yankees with La Russa. We go out and struggle early, who knows maybe we could’ve pressed even more and not even make the playoffs. You want fire, fine, but it comes with it’s negatives. This team doesn’t need fire. It needs a voice of reason. It needs someone who can let them do their job. They are making millions, they shouldn’t have to be told how to do their job. A manager with fire is not the answer.
So who are the choices now? Girardi? Mattingly? Valentine? Who knows. Girardi seems to be the front runner, but Cashman did say there are a few surprises that they are looking at today in the conference.
Mattingly is too inexperienced. You don’t give a rookie the keys to the Vette.
Girardi has only 1 year on him. But apparently that 1 year makes a huge difference. But for all the wrong reasons. He’s not a miracle worker. His 1 year is too small of a sample size to pass judgment on. Sure his team was supposed to suck, but they had a **** load of talent. Good pitching, and they were only in contention because of a weak NL. Being 10-15 games under .500 doesn’t make you great. We don’t want to give Torre credit for getting the Yankees to the playoffs 12 years in a row. It’s because of the players. Same should hold true for Girardi. He had the 4th best pitching staff in the NL that year, and an offense that was good as well. He wasn’t a miracle worker.
But why Girardi? Because he seems to give youth a chance. But it’s not like he had a choice. When given the options I’m sure many people would go with the safe choice. But it seems like he’d take chances. He was a catcher and should have a very good understanding of the game. He doesn’t deflect media, he absorbs it. Wouldn’t that be good for the Yankees and their antics? I think so. I don’t know how he will handle problems, none of us do. If he had a problem with Loria, he’ll have a problem with our owner. We don’t know how he’ll handle it. We don’t know if his fire will lead this team to play for him. We just don’t know how the team will react or if they will play for him. I just think people like Girardi for all the wrong reasons.
All in all, he is the best choice given the weak market.
Hopefully there is no La Russa. He is a terrible manager and will not be able to handle the team’s personality, the problems they possess AND the media. For those who want La Russa for Duncan, know that Duncan is overrated. He doesn’t handle youth well and his only accomplishment is resurrecting an injured pitcher who always had good stuff, but just couldn’t stay healthy (Carpenter). La Russa shouldn’t ever be an option.
I like the Idea of Jack McKeon. He handles youth well (03 Marlins) and is old enough (77) to know how to handle the veterans. He’s at an age where he wouldn’t care what the media thinks and has the class to handle it. He’s a rare breed of handling youth and veterans. But it might be a long shot.
What other choices are out there?
I believe that in the end, Mo and Jorge stay, and they will make some serious bank in order to be retained.
Andy I can see going, because he’s been contemplating retirement for some time now.
As for ARod - while I think he probably respects Joe a great deal, it is not going to be a major factor in his decision, IMO.
Harley - I think Mo’s teammates are telling how to get the most out of the Yankee’s front office. Wouldn’t you do the same for your friend/coworker if he/she had the opportunity to get a big pay raise from your company? I would… and expect a small commission on the side…
But Mo is doing what every free agent does this time of year and that is separate personal from business. This is Mo’s and probably Posada’s last contract. They’re doing whatever they can to make sure it’s a big one… who wouldn’t? Loyalty is fine - in it’s time and place - like during a game against the Red Sox, but that’s when contracts are settled and teams are playing… this is the business side of baseball and the players do what they can to make what they feel they deserve. And in the end, it’ll be somewhere in the middle as always.
I don’t know if Donnie is ready or not, but as for inexperience, consider this.
Bob Brenly wasn’t exactly a genius, but he left the broadcasting booth to manage Arizona.
What’d he do in 2001–his rookie year?
A lot of people here getting on Mo for his comments must have short memories of what I like to call the 80’s. Be careful of what you wish for. The word loyalty should only apply to us fans. To them this is and should be considered a business. The Yankees would have gotten rid of Mo along time ago if he wasn’t performing. Where would the loyalty been then? Mo is allowed to say the things he is saying without us jumping on his back. This false bravado of “let him walk” I keep reading on these comments is ridiculous.
As for the people on here that say that the Yankees made Joe their best offer then they obviously can’t or don’t want to read the fine print. They made an offer they knew he would refuse. They were petty and should have just cut ties instead of making this bogus offer. They’ve made themselves transparent and petty. Their are some right idiots in the top positions in Yankeeland and me thinks it’s all going to blow back in their faces.
Mehdi - I couldn’t agree more.
“As for the people on here that say that the Yankees made Joe their best offer then they obviously can’t or don’t want to read the fine print. They made an offer they knew he would refuse. They were petty and should have just cut ties instead of making this bogus offer. They’ve made themselves transparent and petty. Their are some right idiots in the top positions in Yankeeland and me thinks it’s all going to blow back in their faces.”
Agreed Mehdi hates Randy LEvine
The Yankees front office has rendered themselves classless. It took 2 days last year to make a decision on Torre. This time it took nearly two weeks. Which in turn lead them to offer a deal which has nothing to do with money, but more to do with an insult to Torre. It’s BS. What’s even worse is Torre is going to go on the Radio tomorrow and let the Yankees organization off the hook. He’s going to handle it with class and the Yankees bs is never going to be mentioned.
Pete, you look at percentages, I look at what the rest of the MLB is going to offer him after he turned down a 5 million dollar offer with 3 million in incentives. One, if he made the playoffs, which he has done for 12 consecutive yrs and which he has a 200 million dollar team to do it with, he could make 6 million. Two, his incentives are the same as his job and his goal in life- to make the world series. If he does so, he actually would have gotten a 1 million dollar raise and a contract extension with a million dollar raise the following yr and he doesnt even have to win the world series just make it. Three, what esactly are the sox, dodgers, mets and whatever club may be looking at Joe going to offer him? Two yrs and six million maybe if he is lucky. I want to see the club that gives Joe 2 yrs and 15 million - they dont exist. They would have been the yanks if joe beat cleveland and the sox this season. Fourth, Joe is 4 and 13 in his last 17 playoff games. He is working with a team that has an all star at every position. He also had some of the best young talent in the majors with Hughes, Chamberlain and Kennedy (who should have been on the roster when clemens was removed.) If you cant win with that kind of team u arent winning with any other kind of a team. Additionally, Joe was a horrible manager before he came to the yanks - maybe every one forgot but the yanks made Joes career NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND! I dont know why Joe thinks he can lose in the ALDS three seasons in a row and still believe he should be making double the next highest payed manager in baseball. It doesnt work like that/ He is lucky as hell he still recieved an offer - If i was the yanks, i would have fired him after the historic collapse in 2004. He doesnt even deserve to be the highest payed manager in baseball becuz he isnt the best manager in the sport - i dunno who he thinks he is. So now we can pay girardi a million for one yr and have a manager who actually knows how to manage a game. I dunno why you pete and the rest of the media are saying the yanks did the wrong thing. Everyone has to leave at some point - Joe failed the yanks ultimate goal 7 yrs in a row and sometimes in historic fashion or in a total collapse. It was time for a change. No matter how it happened it wouldnt have been pretty. The yanks were gracious enuff to offer torre another yr at 5 million which could have been 8 and for some reason Joe (the guy who was balling and crying last week cuz he didnt want to leave the yanks) turned the team d own. If any one looks greedy and stupid its Joe- not the brass. Way to go for the money joe( and I dont even know where the money is) rather than stick with the team u supposedly would die for. Mattingly has the exact same personality as Joe - hiring him for the job would be like hiring a guy with the same name and a different face. We need a change - a different style, a better in game manager, someone with limited experience at least - give girardi a shot. And if pettitte, Posada and Mo dont come back becuz torre didnt take five million good riddens to them too. It was Joes fault he didnt come back not the teams. They did what they needed to do. The three of them will all follow the money as well because everyone in baseball has turned into a greedy bastard that would stab his friend in the heart to make an extra ten bucks. They all have turned into little scott boras. If there was a younger cheaper replacement for Mo and Po I would say they should go too. They r going to get ridiculous contracts, be good for one more season and live out the rest of their days on the dl counting their money while the yanks desparately try to work with the salary they didnt donate to the geriatrics.
I am so tired of people droning on about salary, salary, salary. Damn right, some things just aren’t about $$$$. Some things are about integrity, pride, humanity. If you recognize none of these as important, maybe you lack these qualities. Sorry, but y’all know who you are… Basically, they made him stew for 12 *********g days, offered him an under-cutting, one-year, lame-duck deal - which is their way of saying, bleep you, you’re not part of our future, you won’t get near the new Stadium, this is charity because we can’t afford the bad PR, and they low-balled him, which was SYMBOLIC, because we KNOW they could care less about the extra 2 mil. But George has to make his STATEMENT. I have not been a Torre advocate for several years, now. Not that I really BLAME him (although 2004 was ridiculously managed, that’s irrefutable, IMO) - but here’s the question: how can an organization admit they’ve not developed any pitching, revamp their system, and then turn around and say the manager should have delivered more WORLD SERIES appearances?? ITPS!!! It’s The Pitching Stupid! Still, I thought - and still do - that Girardi would be a great successor, that we have to go with our young talent and lean less on veterans - something Torre was hesitant to buy into until an apparent mandate from Cashman, which I support wholeheartedly. That said, Joe seemed to adapt well to using the younger guys, who all apparently have achieved a comfort level with his avuncular style, and when GROWN MEN shed tears and spontaneously become EVANGELISTS for their manager, it gives you pause: they really want to PLAY for this guy, and maybe that’s why we had the best record in baseball, post All-Star break.
And if, at the end of the day, they still wanted him replaced, he deserved better than this circus. The timing, the graceless manner in which the Yankees conducted themselves, it’s just all wrong. NO way to countenance it. In a word: disgraceful. In five words: Unworthy of the Pinstripes, George.
“the yanks made Joes career NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND! I dont know why Joe thinks he can lose in the ALDS three seasons in a row and still believe he should be making double the next highest payed manager in baseball. It doesnt work like that”
Agreed.
So, for all you wannabe GMs and managers, what’s the worst case scenario to come from today, vis-a-vis the day-to-day lineup for 2008:
Something like this?
LF - Damon
SS - Jeter
RF - Abreu
DH - Matsui
3B - Betemit
2B - Cano
C - Molina
CF - Cabrera
1B - Mientkiewicz
SP - Hughes
SP - Kennedy
SP - Horne
SP - Mussina
SP - Wang
RP - Chamberlain
RP - Farnsworth
RP - Ohlendorf
RP - Ramirez
RP - Veras
RP - Sanchez
RP - Igawa
C - Nieves
1B - Duncan
DH - Giambi
INF - ???
So, maybe with the money they save on the manager’s salary, the catcher’s salary, the third baseman’s salary and the closer’s salary, they go after guys like:
Kaz Matsui (and move Cano to 3B)
Paul LoDuca
Todd Jones
J.C. Romero
Eric Gagne
Here is a link to the upcoming FA, so you can play with it and see what you come up with.
Just an exercise in case the environment reverts to that which existed a few years ago, when FA stayed away….
Dave: exactly. That’s why they should not offer them the huge deals. Just deal with what happens. Let the cards fall where they will, but don’t put yourself in a hole that everyone, including me, regrets.
Let me defend Mo for a sec…
What Pete’s saying is quoted from a friend of Mo’s, he’s not blatantly complaining in public. Haven’t we all had our disgruntled moment at work and say things to our friends in private? We don’t know what goes on behind closed doors in the organization. What we do know is how Yogi was treated, Bernie, and now Joe, etc. Mo has seen things about that place that none of us has. He has the right to be curious about alternatives if he’s not 100% happy here. Won’t we all?
There’s a difference between loyalty and blind loyalty.
Pete, you look at percentages, I look at what the rest of the MLB is going to offer him after he turned down a 5 million dollar offer with 3 million in incentives. One, if he made the playoffs, which he has done for 12 consecutive yrs and which he has a 200 million dollar team to do it with, he could make 6 million. Two, his incentives are the same as his job and his goal in life- to make the world series. If he does so, he actually would have gotten a 1 million dollar raise and a contract extension with a million dollar raise the following yr and he doesnt even have to win the world series just make it. Three, what esactly are the sox, dodgers, mets and whatever club may be looking at Joe going to offer him? Two yrs and six million maybe if he is lucky. I want to see the club that gives Joe 2 yrs and 15 million - they dont exist. They would have been the yanks if joe beat cleveland and the sox this season. Fourth, Joe is 4 and 13 in his last 17 playoff games. He is working with a team that has an all star at every position. He also had some of the best young talent in the majors with Hughes, Chamberlain and Kennedy (who should have been on the roster when clemens was removed.) If you cant win with that kind of team u arent winning with any other kind of a team. Additionally, Joe was a horrible manager before he came to the yanks - maybe every one forgot but the yanks made Joes career NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND! I dont know why Joe thinks he can lose in the ALDS three seasons in a row and still believe he should be making double the next highest payed manager in baseball. It doesnt work like that/ He is lucky as hell he still recieved an offer - If i was the yanks, i would have fired him after the historic collapse in 2004. He doesnt even deserve to be the highest payed manager in baseball becuz he isnt the best manager in the sport - i dunno who he thinks he is. So now we can pay girardi a million for one yr and have a manager who actually knows how to manage a game. I dunno why you pete and the rest of the media are saying the yanks did the wrong thing. Everyone has to leave at some point - Joe failed the yanks ultimate goal 7 yrs in a row and sometimes in historic fashion or in a total collapse. It was time for a change. No matter how it happened it wouldnt have been pretty. The yanks were gracious enuff to offer torre another yr at 5 million which could have been 8 and for some reason Joe (the guy who was balling and crying last week cuz he didnt want to leave the yanks) turned the team d own. If any one looks greedy and stupid its Joe- not the brass. Way to go for the money joe( and I dont even know where the money is) rather than stick with the team u supposedly would die for. Mattingly has the exact same personality as Joe - hiring him for the job would be like hiring a guy with the same name and a different face. We need a change - a different style, a better in game manager, someone with limited experience at least - give girardi a shot. And if pettitte, Posada and Mo dont come back becuz torre didnt take five million good riddens to them too. It was Joes fault he didnt come back not the teams. They did what they needed to do. The three of them will all follow the money as well because everyone in baseball has turned into a greedy bastard that would stab his friend in the heart to make an extra ten bucks. They all have turned into little scott boras. If there was a younger cheaper replacement for Mo and Po I would say they should go too. They r going to get ridiculous contracts, be good for one more season and live out the rest of their days on the dl counting their money while the yanks desparately try to work with the salary they didnt donate to the geriatrics
I think it’s a little irresponsible to put that phrase from Mo in quotes when you heard it from a friend. But whatever.
So, for all you wannabe GMs and managers, what’s the worst case scenario to come from today, vis-a-vis the day-to-day lineup for 2008:
Something like this?
LF – Damon
SS – Jeter
RF – Abreu
DH – Matsui
3B – Betemit
2B – Cano
C – Molina
CF – Cabrera
1B – Mientkiewicz
SP – Hughes
SP – Kennedy
SP – Horne
SP – Mussina
SP – Wang
RP – Chamberlain
RP – Farnsworth
RP – Ohlendorf
RP – Ramirez
RP – Veras
RP – Sanchez
RP – Igawa
C – Nieves
1B – Duncan
DH – Giambi
INF – ???
So, maybe with the money they save on the manager’s salary, the catcher’s salary, the third baseman’s salary and the closer’s salary, they go after guys like:
Kaz Matsui (and move Cano to 3B)
Paul LoDuca
Todd Jones
J.C. Romero
Eric Gagne
Here is a link to the upcoming FA, so you can play with it and see what you come up with.
http://www.mlb4u.com/freeagency.php
Just an exercise in case the environment reverts to that which existed a few years ago, when FA stayed away….
Randy 1, I too thought it was rather strange that Cashman the GM had little to say unless he was asked a direct question…..What the hell was Levine reading the Yankee offical statement…..Not a good start to the Steinbrenner Part 11 Chapter…..
Oh my god, the fact that a poster that goes by the name Steve Phillips agrees with Dave says all you want to know about Dave’s opinion.
Betemit will not be the Yankees third baseman next year. He’s at best a utility player that strikes out way to often. If Arod walks, you can bet the farm, they’ll throw money ay Lowell.
Yank fan 28,
The front office made Joe Torre a good offer and a chance to make even more money than he made this year. His coice to turn it down was his and his alone. Why do the Yankees owe him more than what they offered him? Why did the Yankees have to make a decision on your timeframe or anyone else’s for that matter? Let’s not forget what the Yankees have done for Joe Torre:
1. Gave him what he was missing in a very long career - A WS Ring.
2. Ensured his enshrinement in Cooperstown.
3. Made him an Icon with several endorsement deals netting him a lot of money.
4. Paid him an obscene amount of money for several years.
5. Surrounded him with the talent to make him a legendary manager ensuring him a place in history. Check his record prior to the Yankee years.
6. Gave him the best coaching staff money could buy year in and year out.
The Steinbrenner money is more responsible for the recent success of the franchise than Joe Torre. The Core of the team was in place prior to Torre’s hiring.
hey Pete you got rid of the Steve Phillips impersonator .
Mo is a hasbeen and an ingrate. The Yankees rewarded him with a then record 4-year $39.95M contract after 2000 then rewarded him again with a then record 3-year extension including this year ($10.5M) and he’s running his mouth about how the Yanks slighted him for not giving him an extension before 2007. Ever heard of shutting up and playing out your existing contract like an honorable man, Mo? The Yanks owe you nothing after they made you the richest reliever of all time. You’d be Trevor Hoffman if you didn’t have the rotations and middle relief good enough to get the ball to you.
I say sign Doug Jones who saved 38 games for Detroit this year for a year and $6M (he made only $5M with Detroit this year). He’d be the perfect stopgap to Brian Fuentes in 2009.
I’d also sign Troy Percival for a year and $3M and 28-year old veteran lefty Jeremy Affeldt to be the backup closers.
A brand-new Yankees bullpen with ZERO 2007 Yankees relievers made up of Jones, Percival, Affeldt, J.C. Romero (another lefty), Huston Street (acquired by trade to set up Jones), Scott Linebrink, and whoever wins the final bullpen slot (Farnsworth and $4M of his $5.75M traded -just get rid of him and clear $1.75M I could see several teams willing to pay for him) is a.o.k. by me.
So 15 days after the WS Yankee free-agents to be file….The Yanks will never have a manager in place by then, will they ?????
Speaking of dis-respect; Torre batting A-Rod eigth.
Maybe saying goodbye to JT might be help in having A-Rod come back.
As someone said earlier, I like how Mariano has absolutely no attachment to his teammates with whom he has played for his entire career and his fans who have supported him his entire career. Apparently, his only loyalty is to Joe, a guy who turned the yankees down NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. And by the way, deiciding if Joe is to come back or not and what to offer him takes time, they could not jump to rash decision. They wanted to talk it over with everyone and come to the logical and sensible conclusion. That was that Joe doesnt deserve to make more than most players but does deserve to come back - Joe refused. I dunno why mariano thinks that is some sort of awful thing. I dunno why he holds no loyalty to New York now that Joe is gone - what about your team, your fans, your restaurant in NY, you home, your life, your career, the hat you wear when you go into the hall of fame you BABY? Pleeease - now they are just one of thirty teams OK! I supposed if they offered him the most money they would be back to being his team. Now i see where his heart lies i guess. The media makes me sick as well. Oh how horrible of the yanks for torre to fail them yr after yr after yr and for them to decrease his pay. He is a wealthy man - a ridiculously wealthy man - 2 million should mean little to Joe. The media is making the yanks out to be evil in this situation - its sickening and ignorant. And pete you are spreading this ridiculous propaganda - why dont u stop and think for a second before following the rest of ur media cohorts. The yanks did absolutely nothing wrong in this situation - Joe has failed to meet his foal for 7 consecutive yrs, he has had a historic collapse and is 4 and 13 in his last 17 post season games, he has made very few correct decision in the last four post seasons, he was payed more than 2 times the next highest payed manager for the last couple of yrs even tho he isnt even close to the best manager around. These facts all add up to a pay cut. He should have been expected to be let go and prayed for just a pay cut. If all of us continually failed to meet our objective for seven straight yrs we will all expect our bosses to be frustrated with us and to be fired. We all would prolly beg and plead for just a pay cut. I dunno why no one can see this.
sunny615,
Actually, if A-Rod leaves, Betemit is who they have at 3B. Bet the farm that Lowell will stay in Boston, particularly if the Red Sox can not only help themselves by keeping him, but hurt the Yankees by keeping him from them.
As someone said earlier, I like how Mariano has absolutely no attachment to his teammates with whom he has played for his entire career and his fans who have supported him his entire career. Apparently, his only loyalty is to Joe, a guy who turned the yankees down NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. And by the way, deiciding if Joe is to come back or not and what to offer him takes time, they could not jump to rash decision. They wanted to talk it over with everyone and come to the logical and sensible conclusion. That was that Joe doesnt deserve to make more than most players but does deserve to come back - Joe refused. I dunno why mariano thinks that is some sort of awful thing. I dunno why he holds no loyalty to New York now that Joe is gone - what about your team, your fans, your restaurant in NY, you home, your life, your career, the hat you wear when you go into the hall of fame you BABY? Pleeease - now they are just one of thirty teams OK! I supposed if they offered him the most money they would be back to being his team. Now i see where his heart lies i guess. The media makes me sick as well. Oh how horrible of the yanks for torre to fail them yr after yr after yr and for them to decrease his pay. He is a wealthy man - a ridiculously wealthy man - 2 million should mean little to Joe. The media is making the yanks out to be evil in this situation - its sickening and ignorant. And pete you are spreading this ridiculous propaganda - why dont u stop and think for a second before following the rest of ur media cohorts. The yanks did absolutely nothing wrong in this situation - Joe has failed to meet his foal for 7 consecutive yrs, he has had a historic collapse and is 4 and 13 in his last 17 post season games, he has made very few correct decision in the last four post seasons, he was payed more than 2 times the next highest payed manager for the last couple of yrs even tho he isnt even close to the best manager around. These facts all add up to a pay cut. He should have been expected to be let go and prayed for just a pay cut. If all of us continually failed to meet our objective for seven straight yrs we will all expect our bosses to be frustrated with us and to be fired. We all would prolly beg and plead for just a pay cut. I dunno why no one can see this
Peter,
Here are my comments and this is my correct e mail.. Torre slighted blah blah blah..give me a break.. $5 mill base, no other manager makes over $3.5 mill… he gets incentives and could have made $8 mill. Yeah the Yanks really did not want Torre back but TOrre felt slighted. His pride got in the way. He if he manages elsewhere will get paid less then $5 mill so it was the slight not the money. again all the writers love him because he is a great guy but let’s be real, the Yanks treated him fairly..
tell me something I do not know Randy Levine is a jerk, so..
Steinny’s sons were given his job, WOW shocking this does not happen in real life…
He turned down a job to be the highest paid manager..that is the bottom line….
mariano is such a little baby. shut up and realize this is a business. you’re not here to make friends and have who you want manage. you’re a player on a team. if the yanks offer you the best deal, you’re going to take it.
VOIII
I’m not disagreeing with your opinion. You’re right on all accounts. Except that I feel that offer was an insult. DESPITE the financial aspect, Torre is the best man for the job in 2008. Girardi is very overrated after 1 year in Florida. La Russa is a terrible manager and Donnie is too inxperienced. The choices just aren’t there. Change is good, in no way am I a Torre apologist, but I just feel like he’s the best man for the job.
As someone said earlier, I like how Mariano has absolutely no attachment to his teammates with whom he has played for his entire career and his fans who have supported him his entire career. Apparently, his only loyalty is to Joe, a guy who turned the yankees down NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. And by the way, deiciding if Joe is to come back or not and what to offer him takes time, they could not jump to rash decision. They wanted to talk it over with everyone and come to the logical and sensible conclusion. That was that Joe doesnt deserve to make more than most players but does deserve to come back - Joe refused. I dunno why mariano thinks that is some sort of awful thing. I dunno why he holds no loyalty to New York now that Joe is gone - what about your team, your fans, your restaurant in NY, you home, your life, your career, the hat you wear when you go into the hall of fame you BABY? Pleeease - now they are just one of thirty teams OK! I supposed if they offered him the most money they would be back to being his team. Now i see where his heart lies i guess. The media makes me sick as well. Oh how horrible of the yanks for torre to fail them yr after yr after yr and for them to decrease his pay. He is a wealthy man - a ridiculously wealthy man - 2 million should mean little to Joe. The media is making the yanks out to be evil in this situation - its sickening and ignorant. And pete you are spreading this ridiculous propaganda - why dont u stop and think for a second before following the rest of ur media cohorts. The yanks did absolutely nothing wrong in this situation - Joe has failed to meet his foal for 7 consecutive yrs, he has had a historic collapse and is 4 and 13 in his last 17 post season games, he has made very few correct decision in the last four post seasons, he was payed more than 2 times the next highest payed manager for the last couple of yrs even tho he isnt even close to the best manager around. These facts all add up to a pay cut. He should have been expected to be let go and prayed for just a pay cut. If all of us continually failed to meet our objective for seven straight yrs we will all expect our bosses to be frustrated with us and to be fired. We all would prolly beg and plead for just a pay cut. I dunno why no one can see thi
it goes back to what Michelle said earlier, Torre’s decision has nothing to do with money, and if you can’t look past that, I don’t know what to say.
time to move on…
I loved Torre and wanted him back but do understand the yanks position. I am a Yankee fan 1st a torre fan 2nd.. if he managers the sux I am sure all you fans will be in his corner in the future!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
12 years is a long time, to work for steinbrenner for 12 years is a lifetime…
This whole thing is SICKENING. Joe Torre represented and embodied class. That class brought the Yankee organization to a level it hadn’t been in decades. And what happens? The Yankees proceed in the biggest PR-motivated, phony, political, posturing I have ever seen outside of Washington, DC. Whether or not he was offered a decent contract is irrelevant. The Yankee brass made a decision to can him, and then later had to find a way to make it appear they wanted precisely the opposite. DISGUSTING. I love the Yankees, but there is no way I can defend the actions of the ownership. What I want to know is whether Brian Cashman has lost any leverage within the organization. Randy Levine, yes, the clueless, bumbling idiot Randy Levine, has clearly taken control. This is bad, bad news for the future of the organization.
I think that’s the point here. Torre’s leaving gives more ammunition for Mo’s camp (and probably Posada’s)… they’re going to use this as a means to get better deals. This is about posturing - i.e., business and contract negotiations. The Yankees will get Mo and Posada, but they’ll be paying out the nose to get them.
Dave, sj44, mel,bobcat,yankeefan28, ,michelle your post are tooooo looooonnnng,take a breather please.
Whoever the next Yankee manager is gets the uneviable task of being the manager who has to tell Derek Jeter he can’t play SS anymore. Probably not next season, but the season after. His decline in the field is coming on rapidly.
I always hoped Torre would be the one to do it since I think Jeter could handle that only from Joe.
This isn’t just the end of the Torre era. I think this is the beginning of the end of the Jeter era. I don’t think he’s going to like not having his guy managing the team and you could see a further decline. When you get your heart ripped out, it’s hard to bring the fire. That said, if Jeter showed up for the ALDS he could have saved Torre.
As for Torre, here’s my prediction. He gets a 3 year 12 million dollar contract to manage the Houston Astros. Andy Pettite declines his player option with the Yankees and pitches for Torre in Houston next season. Don’t be shocked if this happens.
Although I would also not be surprised if we wake up tomorrow and learn Torre is back on a 2 year 14 million contract. George did this same move with Buck after 95. Same thing with Howser.
For all of you who say it’s not about money or stop harping on the salary. Is this not a paying job? Is that not how you are rewarded for a job well done? Joe is a great guy, He is classy and he is what everyone of us would like to be. However, that does not warrant a lifetime contract to manage this team. There is nothing wrong with the Yankees taking 2 weeks to make a corporate decision. There is nothing wrong with offering a man more than 1.5 million more than the next highest paid Manager. There is nothing wrong with tying a contract to performance when your bottom line depends on it. The Yankees have lost millions in revenue for the post season series that they did not make over the last several years. It fair play to say “hey Joe, we do good, You do good” This is a business and it is unfair to call good business people classless or idiots because they made a sound business decision.
yankeefan28 please explain to us all how 5 million plus 3 million more if he makes the world series which he should do anyway is somehow an insult - he has failed us for seven yrs and still would get a one million dollar raise and an extension if he turned it around this yr and made the world series. Is that such a demand? Make the world series with a 200 million dollar team and the best rookie pitchers in the sport? We should all be so insulted.
Betemit is not a very good 3B.He was 4TH on the chart for 3B with the Dodgers at the time of the trade.
Wil Nieves is now a minor league free agent,so forget about having him on any made up 2008 Roster.
By the way,Colter Bean is also a ML free agent,so there goes Mos’ replacement if he leaves.
Bye Joe————–Hello JOE!Welcome Back!!Heres your old #45 jersey back (Hardly worn).
Tony LaRussa could actually return to St. Louis,heard that today.
I am for moving Cano to THIRD BASE if A-Rod leaves.I heard that about a year ago.
What type of Yankee fans are we here? Why do I see so many posts wishing bad luck on the team because of this? You guys really need to stop being so dramatic. And I for one still want to see a winning team and I am going to have faith for the moment that that will happen. This is what they did to Bernie, too. It’s not the greatest thing in the world, but it happens. Change happens. Torre was not going to be here forever. People are upset, but they’ll get over it. We all will. Torre was a very good manager and a great guy, but he’s gone now, get over it and stop crying like Suzyn Waldman, for god’s sakes.
It’s not about the money.
It’s about the Yankees’ brass not having the _cojones_ to fire Torre right after the ALDS, and having no class, whatsoever.
Please - Larry Bowa for manager. Is has the passion, sufficient gravitas for this veteran team and the experience to build on. He should be given a shot.
“The Yankees are one of 30 teams now.� Be afraid - be very afraid . . .
Anybody check out NoMaas tonight?
http://www.nomaas.org/
I didn’t always agree with him, but I’m gonna him. He was a good read.
I don’t think torre deserved a lifetime contract… but I also don’t think he deserved another year of lame duck status - which is what this contract amounted to. Two years and no more would have sufficed. No team option for a third year and no agreement for an extension (with the exception of only winning the next two world series of course). But if you cannot see even with this $5 mil offer that this serves only to put Torre under a very large microscope all of next year and gives no respect to his manager status and a big fat lame duck status then you’re not seeing the big picture. Is the money good - hell yeah. I’d take it in a heartbeat… but Torre knows what it takes to manage a team, and if you can’t win the respect of your players, you’ve got little chance of managing them to any kind of success.
rebecca someone used cajones the other day don’t copy
I love Joe and I don’t mean to dump, but how funny would this be:
What if Joe ended up going to the Dodgers? How would Scottie Proctor feel about that? haha.
Yankees brass made sound business decision, period.
Torre should be thankful for the opportunities Yanks gave him, it is not the other way around. Before coming to Yanks, Torre was not even an average manager with losing record over a long managerial career. If he manages again, good luck to him. Hopefully, he can prove that he can win without Yankee dollars.
Regarding Mo and Posada, they are posturing to get better deals. The fact is, even if Joe came back, they would have still sqeezed Yanks for the last dollar any way.
Now Yanks should move quickly and fill the manager position. Probably, it will be decided by next weekend. Because of Selig’s edict, they have to interview at least one minority candidate. Probably that one would be Pena.
No matter what your viewpoint is, it’s definitely not a stretch to say that Randy Levine has been somewhat conniving and vindictive throughout the entire process. Hopefully the parting wasn’t too bitter for them to honor Torre next season and retire Number 6. Number 6 should never be worn again, even though I wouldn’t put it past Levine to directly order the Yankees to issue it to somebody next year, which would be directly insulting to Joe. I don’t think that I could put anything past him.
I miss guys like Paul O’Neill that took less money to stay with the Yankees because he loved being a part of it - New York, New York.
If Mo doesn’t have any sense of loyalty to the fans, I don’t want him on my team anyway.
You can bet your ass that the $$$$ for Rivera & Posada just spiked in a upward direction……For supposedly very smart business men, I tend to think it’s going to cost them many times over than the 2 million they sliced off ST. Torre’s contract….Make that 4 mil over the 2 final years he would have excepted on a status quo contract…..Boras must be rehearsing his routine , the Yanks need Alex more than ever, blah blah blah…And the Yanks throw an extra 10 mil on their proposal……Penny wise, dollar foolish……Randy Levine, I’m sad to say , we may be hearing alot more from that any of us can bear…..
Bravo! to the Yanks for not wanting to be the next 1996-2005 Altanta Braves.
They should have offered Torre an exec. position. giving him Levine’s job would have been good.
Now, let’s get the Joe Girardi era underway and finally light a fire in this team. (sorry Donnie, you are beloved, but there’s no point in letting joe move on and then replacing him with the same type of management). Seems to me JG’s YES contract came with a handshake deal from King George.
First, let it be noted that in my infrequent posts here, I have been a staunch Torre supporter. Still am. Great guy and a great manager here for 12 years. The haters need to give the tired “he ruins the bullpen” nonsense a rest.
That said, this is not the end of the world. It could have been handled better, yes. It is going to be extraordinarily difficult for the next manager, yes. The price tag for Posada and Rivera just went up, yes. Pettitte may not return, yes.
Those are all bad things. And they probably could have been avoided if Steinbrenner hadn’t opened his mouth before Game 3, or if they had at least been quicker in moving to retain Joe after they were eliminated.
That said, the offer wasn’t so horrendous. They probably could have guaranteed a second year, or raised the base to $6M per with a $1-$2M bonus for the World Series. But they did what they did.
So Torre is gone, and it was ugly. As other have pointed out, it didn’t end well for Casey Stengel, either. And most baseball fans worth their salt, even those of us who weren’t born yet, know Casey went on to manage the Mets. Here’s something a lot of you probably didn’t know: Joe McCarthy, the one man with more wins as manager of the Yankees than Torre, before being let go for Casey, went on to manage Boston for three years after the Yanks let him go. Boston!
Another interesting thing about those two Yankee greats. McCarthy managed the Yanks for 16 years, winning 8 WS and 9 AL pennants. Stengel managed for 12 years, winning 7 WS and 10 AL pennants. Torre: 12 years, 4 WS and 6 AL pennants. Pretty comparable, for all three — though Torre’s run is all the more impressive, because he had to win 16 playoff series to McCarthy’s 8 and Stengel’s 7.
Torre was a great manager, and he will one day have a monument. #6 will be retired. And here’s to seeing him throw out the first pitch in the new ballpark, unless he’s managing somewhere else by then.
That said, all good things do come to an end. They did for McCarthy and Stengel. But that doesn’t mean another good thing isn’t right around the corner.
Nomaas stuck to their guns … No offense but it was a move that needed to be made (though it was nasty, it had to be done)
Joe Torre again I will always love you. (Always)
…But a change needed to be done. So far Mattingly, Tony Pena, Joe Girardi are the names that are being considered for the managerial spot in 08′
Mariano my advice shhhhhhhhssshhh… this season wasn’t your best now if it’s $$$ you want, you will get it but stop w/ the threats of us being 1 of 30 teams now.
Brandon. Mo can do whatever he likes. The guy is a legend, end of!
You guys sticking up for the Yankees are lunatics or just full of yourselves. No one is denying the Yankees had the right to cut ties. But not this way. This makes them look stupid. If you really believe they were sincere in this offer then you are on the koolaid.
Let me just say that offer was acceptable. He still would have been the highest paid manager in the game and if he did what everyone expects of him he would’ve made more than his last three seasons and gotten a second year. Not really a bad offer. Pete Abe and Mark Feinsand need to get the hell of their high horse and realize the offer wasnt so bad. Give me a break about how ozzie and joe maddon got extensions for lowsy performance. The yankees way overpaid him for the last 3 seasons and they STILL offered to make him the highest paid manager in the game BY FAR. Give me a break about a 33% pay cut or whatever it’s just ridiculous…he’s not worth more than 5 mill. As far as i’m concerned this team is headed in a new direction now. They are getting younger and cheaper and that is what they need to do. I think they are going to be more pitching an defense oriented now. Obviously they will continue to be a good offensive club, but they are moving forward and w/ the direction the club is moving now i think they will be better suited for the post season provided they get there.
That said…Torre had an amazing 12 year run. It brought a tear to my eye seeing all the memories he managed them thru on ESPN News tonight. He truly was a class act, an incredible manager for that yankee team he inherited. But, i thnk it is certainly time to move on. I haven’t known any other manager since I was 10 years old. It will be strange not having torre at the helm next year and possibly not mo or posada, but i think it is a necesarry direction if that is what it takes. This team needs to continue to get younger and I would like it if they are able to resign mo and posada, but also those guys are in their upper 30’s and prob. don’t have a ton of years left anyway so we’ll see. Regardless, i think the yankees are headed in the right direction. God speed joe torre, we’ll miss you, but this is a new era that is probly needed in pinstripes.
who said they were sincere ? Medhi, point is Torre is 67 yrs. old his last 3 playoff appearances have been 1 and dones, no one is happy the way it ended but it has to, this team has future talent that can’t stay complacent about making the playoffs, they need to progress and Torre was either going away this yr. or next, again not a good way to end it but it had to end.
As for Mariano, I love Mo but he’s bluffing, it’s about $$$ w/ Mo, Alex and Georgy, plain and simple.
No I’m not “full of myself” or a “lunatic”. I was a Yankee fan long before Joe Torre, and I’ll be one long after. Life goes on.
“As for Mariano, I love Mo but he’s bluffing, it’s about $$$ w/ Mo, Alex and Georgy, plain and simple.”
Agreed, money and years. If we make the best offer, they’ll be back. Only Pettitte concerns me regarding Torre.
“The Yankees?” The Yankees today are Randy Levine. That’s who’ve they’ve been building up to be for the past few years, though I didn’t realize it. “Fans?” Yes, some pay to see games, but have earned no loyalty from key players. I’ve heard them loudly boo at certain moments in today’s anything goes uncivil society. People have limits. If they don’t their own safety isn’t insured.